“Krone” interview – “The world has become a dangerous place”

Josep Borrell, head of EU foreign policy, was the only print medium to interview the “Krone”. On the roof terrace of the Hotel Imlauer Pitter, however, the passionate hiker Borrell only has eyes for the surrounding Salzburg mountain landscape. Forget the worries of the world for a moment, the interview brings him back to reality.

„Krone“: Your predecessor Federica Mogherini was an avowed opponent of an EU army. They are seen as champions of a well-fortified EU and also call for an EU army.
Joseph Borrel: Not necessarily an EU army. None of the 27 armies will be replaced by a unified European force. We just need to join forces, coordinate and invest better in defence. No longer. We spend as much on defense as China and four times as much as Russia. As a result of the debt crisis, we have entered a phase of disarmament. As a result, we cannot meet the current challenges. Efficient is the keyword. Otherwise it’s just wasted money.

What has changed for the EU as a result of Russia’s attack?
For us in Europe, the war was now far away. Now the drama, the tragedy, the suffering is back.

Poland and the Baltic States have been warning against Russian aggression for years. Didn’t you listen?
History and geography are of immense importance in understanding the crisis. Geographically and historically, Lithuania is more concerned about Russia than about southern Spain. They worry about North Africa. In Europe, however, we do not have to tackle challenges separately, but together.

You once said that Europe should learn the language of power…
This sentence haunts me.

Do you mean global influence? Russia, the US and China have experience with this, also militarily, that’s what their power is based on…
It’s not just about military power. Europe was founded as a peace project. Away from violent influence, towards persuasion. trade and human rights. Trade involves interdependencies and should lead to peace. Human rights are freedom and respect. Today that is no longer enough. Russia uses trade as a weapon.

Do you think the EU is a global superpower?
From an economic and moral point of view, yes. Military, no. The world has become a dangerous place. EU members need to understand that we need to defend ourselves if necessary and that we need the tools to do that.

Neutral states like Austria are skeptical of the EU’s military orientation.
Neutrality is no longer the same as it was during the Cold War. Today’s neutrality does not prevent Austria from taking part in peacekeeping missions. Mali, Bosnia and Mozambique for example.

Next week you want to present the plan for a military training mission in Ukraine at the meeting of EU defense ministers. What should that look like?
We support the Ukrainian army with arms supplies. To know how to use them, you have to train them. It’s a logical step.

On-site training? How in Mali?
no Ukrainian soldiers are already trained in Europe. Yes, Mali was there. It also makes a lot more sense to prepare Malian soldiers in their ecosystem for a desert fight against terrorists than to bring them to Europe.

The mission in Mali ended in embarrassment for the EU. In the end, they fled from the Russian Wagner militia.
In Mali, of course, that did not work out. I have to accept that. Russia is now more present in the region. We must prevent this from spreading further.

Part of the Austrian population is skeptical about sanctions against Russia.
They are restrictive measures. We are limiting Russia’s economic opportunities. As long as the Russian economy is dependent on oil and gas, they will need our technologies. Russia is in trouble. And of course we face major challenges in the short term. There is no denying that gas prices are rising. But we must be willing to pay a price for freedom. Because the war in Ukraine is not just a war of the Ukrainians, but a war for our freedom.

You have described the pandemic as the biggest challenge for the EU. Is the energy crisis bigger?
This is the biggest crisis Europe has ever had. First the debt crisis, then the pandemic, now energy. The only solution is: unity.

It is also a global democracy crisis.
Yes. Authoritarian regimes on the rise. The old empires are coming back. Russia wants tsarism back, China and Turkey have an imperialist attitude. Here too, the solution can only come about by unity. Everyone does not survive alone.

A question about Iran: what about the nuclear deal?
I got the answer from the US. It is now up to Iran to respond. I would also like to thank Austria for its strong role. We have arrived at the crucial moment. I’m optimistic, it’s the last millimeters. This makes the world a little safer.

War in Ukraine, crisis over Taiwan and other parts of the world. In addition, there is a pandemic, a crisis in democracy and a possible comeback of Donald Trump in 2024 as US president. What will the world look like in five years?
I don’t know. The world has caused me enough trouble for the past five weeks.