Wolff: “Sainz is still a chance for Mercedes; Verstappen? It’s unknown”

A few days after George Russell’s victory in Austria and before the British F1 GP, Toto Wolff, Team Principal of Mercedes, sat down to chat via videoconference with MD about the team’s present and future after regretting the elimination of his beloved Austria from the European Football Championship. Toto spoke openly about everything for more than half an hour, speaking to this newspaper and two other international media outlets. Below, the first part of this relaxed conversation (on Saturday, the second installment) about Formula 1, Lewis Hamilton and, above all, the decision that Mercedes must make in the short term: find the right replacement for Lewis Hamilton in 2025.

Carlos Sainz’s option was considered closed, but Toto made it clear to MD that if Carlos could wait, even though it might pose a risk, The Spanish could be a good opportunity for Mercedes. Although from his words it is clear that the priority is to sign Max Verstappen and he also has a good option to promote the young Kimi Antonelli. Although Carlos was still there.

Austria was embarrassed at the Euro Cup. He played a great game against Türkiye.

Yes, Austria beat Turkey 6-1 in March, and then in the round of 16 of the Euro… that goal in the first minute… But the defense was terrible. In any case, they should win, but they don’t. In Austria, we stick to skiing (laughs).

Do you like how Spain plays?

Yes, Spain is the best, but England is in the championship, even if they don’t play. I think the Austrians played better than them so far.

Let’s talk about Lewis Hamilton, who is leaving Mercedes at the end of this year for Ferrari. What has changed in the last 11 years of working with you and what has remained the same since the beginning? How do you see Ferrari next year?

Things have changed. I think when we both started in 2012 we didn’t know what to expect from each other. He was a world champion, a superstar even then, and I was relatively new to the business, although I wouldn’t say ‘green’ as a professional, because I had a 20-year career under my belt. But over the years, the relationship became stronger. I’m not sure Lewis is a trustworthy person, but he learned to trust and I gave him examples that he can trust. And with me too. I think we learned to trust each other, which is an important word: trust. We’ve made it through the good and the bad. So I am confident in his decision.

I understand that our team’s performance was not that good and that played a big role. Perhaps he doubted whether we would recover. I understand that sometimes you just need a different environment after so many years… This is the longest driver-team relationship that exists as far as I know. I think he will have an attractive compensation package, which will have some interest when he wears the red suit for the first time and drives the red car, but then it will come down to the performance of the team and the performance of the driver and it . it will be business as usual just dressed in a different color.

Now there are four leading teams in a close battle for victories, although Mercedes and Ferrari still need to make another step. Do you think 2025 will see the best title fight of the last decade?

I think it could be a super fight (in English it says ‘mega fight’).

Is Mercedes in the fight?

Hopefully with Mercedes. We know how the aerodynamic rules work in recent years. We are now in a chasing position, fourth on June 30, and we will have an aerodynamic time allocation in the wind tunnel that is higher. Hopefully we will have a convergence of performance next year and a lot of cars that can win races and then it all goes to the drivers.

(Nrd: Mercedes gained 10% time thanks to its position in the Constructors’ World Championship, as the time allowed in the wind tunnel and CFD simulation has been rearranged in the position in Constructors since that date: it finished the year 2nd and June 30 is the 4th).

What do you think of the fight between Norris and Verstappen from Austria? Does this remind you of the 2021 Hamilton-Max battle?

Max drives like a driver… very hard and he pushes as far as the regulations allow him. And that just needs to be discussed, if that is true for all drivers, because we see it with other drivers as well. If you look at the Alpine or Tsunoda or Kevin fights, many drivers are pushing the limits to a level that some might say is excessive or unfair. I think we just need to clarify: What are the rules? In 2021, that was allowed. What do we do here now?

He has yet to sign a new driver for next season to join Russell in replacing Hamilton. He always said he likes Verstappen and Leclerc. If you could choose, who would you choose?

It’s an unfair question because I wouldn’t want to judge other teams’ drivers too much. They are both very good, and any team would be happy to have either driver in the team and the same goes for Lewis Hamilton, George Russell and others. Leclerc is a Ferrari driver until 2028. And with Verstappen… it’s not really known. So we’re keeping our options open.

Are you still waiting for Max?

No one is waiting. It always, let’s say, it goes both ways. We are not waiting for a pilot. I admit we were not. The main focus now on our part is to have a faster car. If our car is faster, I think Lewis and George will be able to fight at the front, as well as whoever is there next year, whether it’s Kimi or Verstappen or whoever… that’s our duty (make the car faster ) and it is under our control.

Do you think it is still possible to sign Max for 2025? It was in Austria that Verstappen said he would stay with Red Bull.

I think Verstappen will probably stay with Red Bull, as he said. But that doesn’t mean things can’t change.

I am interested in his second option beyond Verstappen, which could be Kimi Antonelli (Mercedes junior, F2 driver). A lot of people don’t understand why you don’t sign Carlos Sainz for two years while Kimi Antonelli goes to Williams and learns for two years.

There is no single answer for that. I think we have narrowed down the group of drivers we want to work with in the future. And we want to make a decision in favor of what Mercedes can have in the next 5-6 years. And Kimi and George have been our junior drivers for a long time and I want to stay true to the program. That said, with Carlos, you have a certain value, especially in a very close championship next year you have another driver who will be very competitive, which if our car is good, will help us get of a match for the constructors’ championship. . There are certainly many arguments in favor. That’s why I also want to take my time with the decision and keep all options open as much as possible. And when I talked to Carlos I told him: “I’m not sure you can wait as long as I would like you to wait.”

So, Carlos still has a chance?

I don’t want to make a quick decision. But yes, it is. If we have more time to decide, Carlos is definitely still a chance, but Carlos has to make a decision about what he does with other teams (Nrd: Sauber/Audi, Williams and Alpine want him).

Lewis suggested promoting Kimi Antonelli to Mercedes next year. But do you think he will be ready for F1 at 18?

There will be a lot of learning on the job. You will make mistakes. Like all young drivers make mistakes, even the best drivers do. If we make this decision it is something to be expected and something to consider. But in Kimi we see talent, ability and the right personality and that is the dominant factor. But again, we haven’t decided yet. I want to wait as long as possible to see Kimi’s progress and see what happens in the driving market. And we know we’ll always have a good option with Kimi and see what else happens…

As a team manager, I am interested in your view regarding the following issue: many F1 Team Principals no longer want to combine two world champions in the same team, like Senna-Prost. Everyone remembers that the battle and the coming together of two greats like them will also be a way to make history. Do you think we’ll see something similar in the future or is there no longer an option for a team to take that risk?

I like that challenge. I like wild roads and being challenged, and I like trying to handle a situation like that. I’ve done it with Nico (Rosberg) and Lewis (Hamilton) and sometimes it gets bad… But yes, I like that situation. I don’t know how Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton would get along if they were in the same team. Maybe that’s not a possibility, but the others… let them come.

Can you tell us where Adrian Newey will be working next year?

I don’t know where Adrian will work next year. I’m not sure even if he knows.

But is this a goal for Mercedes?

I think we need to focus on our current structure and push it as hard as we can. We see that we get the first benefits in our car, that it starts to work correctly, and that is the most important thing: the current structure.

At the beginning of the year, did you think about Alonso’s option or was it something impossible?

Of course, we considered Fernando’s choice, but at that time, Fernando was not interested in driving for Mercedes. Additionally, he was offered a long-term contract with Aston Martin. That’s how we felt at that moment.

Max Verstappen recently made his Top-5 of the best drivers in history. Their list is as follows: Michael Schumacher, Ayrton Senna, Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Fangio. Do you agree with that list?

Yes I agree.

Even if there are drivers in history with more titles than Fernando?

Yes, but Fernando would have won more titles if he had managed his career differently. Going to Mercedes in the past? I don’t think I would have signed for Mercedes after the McLaren stages. Dieter Zetsche was at McLaren and later at Mercedes. So that door is almost closed (Ed: although this was not the case at the beginning of this year, as Dieter was no longer in office).

Rumor has it in the paddock that by 2026 the Mercedes engine will be the fastest. Can you tell me how the situation is?

I want to be very fast. But we don’t know what other people’s goals are and their progress. I think it’s always dangerous to believe rumors because you might look like a fool in 2026 thinking you’re setting the standard and the benchmark and then suddenly realize you’re not. So I’d rather see him on the track with a stopwatch in hand.